Just *sigh*

Everything else you can poke a stick at. And then some.
Sherry
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Just *sigh*

Postby Sherry » Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:45 pm

Here is why I am sighing :roll:

Now, the whole downloading off the internet is a can of worms. Good or bad, how you look at it and how you feel about it, each to their own. I'm not one to throw stones in glass houses here ;) I've kept my views to myself pretty much on the whole downloading off the internet debate. Films, music etc. I have my thoughts, and they have changed over time.

But reading the link above, well, its disheartening. Now, I did ask the guys permission to use lyrics on this site. And as they linked themselves to tabs online, well :lol:

*snip*

Publishing companies have taken action against websites in the past, but this will be the first co-ordinated legal campaign by the MPA.

The MPA would target "very big sites that people would think are legitimate and very, very popular", Mr Keiser said.

"The Xerox machine was the big usurper of our potential income," he said. "But now the internet is taking more of a bite out of sheet music and printed music sales so we're taking a more proactive stance."


*end snip*

I loathe that it all comes down to money. It is the bottom line. The way I feel now, I'm preferring sitting more and more on one side of the fence than the other. Even thought I don't agree with everything on this side of the fence, the view is certainly looking more appealing. Damn the money men :cross: They are changing my opinion on these matters. Something that not even the Bloke has really been able to do on this matter in three years. Although I have mellowed somewhat. And that is no small feat. But hey, they only have themselves to blame.

I wonder if there are more people like me out there. I am so disilliusioned with record companies now. A huge part of me would love to see the guys bypass a record deal and make their stuff available to download online from their site like some artists do. Stuart Davis springs to mind. Yes you can buy the CD, but you can also buy and download online and cut out the middlemen. His website is extensive and well run. And on his site it says the following in his bio

Dharma Pop Records (formerly Post-Apocalyptic Records) was formed in 1999 when Stuart tried to sell his own body parts to fund his 7th album, "Bright Apocalypse". Fans settled for shares in his records instead, and a label was born. Dharma Pop now has a staff of 20 volunteers who participate in everything from management to web-hosting to graphic design, 400 "Punk Monks" (street teams) who help promote concerts by postering, contacting local media and record stores, selling merchandise at shows, etc. and 40 investors whose cash infusions make each new project possible.

Read his bio. Its just cool. He now releases his own albums on his own label. Power to the man.

Anyways, I guess I'll be over *there* and hoping more and more artists embrace the internet and make use of its potential. I for one will support artists I am a 'fan' of and who make such things available. And hell, even the ones I am not fans of, I'll say good on them and appreciate them branching out. I don't care about the bottom line $$$ or £££ for the companies, what I care about is artists doing what they do and being allowed time to develop and grow and sustain a career and not be a one album wonder, or dropped when sales are not good for a while. Or spawned from a reality TV show and marketed/hyped/shoved down our throats.

Gah I am :cross: Damn the man for making me so.

But I am also happy. I'm where I am now :) Its overdue methinks. But the scales finally tipped. And I can live with that just fine. I have them to thank for this also :lol:

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Kate
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Postby Kate » Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:02 pm

Sherry, will this effect this site? If so, how?

What a shame that artists and the Internet can't find a way to co-exist effectively and happily without all this search and destroy business. I suppose there is always a period like this when anything revolutionizes the way people live as the internet has done, but it's painful to watch and live through. Hopefully it will all smooth out in a few years.

But, I do worry about not being able to find Conchords goodies, as there is so little of their stuff out here in the first place. :(

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Postby Gayle » Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:42 pm

For me, the gossimer veil of record companydom was dropped years ago. They are bastards, the lot of them. And it is ALL about money - money and product. It has nothing to do with music or the artist, and they make that quite clear. (Hence the mixed feelings about FotC getting signed. One hand: Happy for their success; Other hand: Concerned for their happiness.

I've known so many talented musicians get lost in the shuffle because the company didn't know how to market them, or the music was too new and they weren't willing to risk signing anything other than a new boy band or... Wambi, straight from a mould. It's sad. In the 60's and part of the 70's the music industry was more about trying something new and producing original sounds and artists, though not entirely, of course. Then in the 80's everything shifted.

Record producers get richer and the music gets poorer.
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Kate
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Postby Kate » Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:17 pm

Gayle wrote:For me, the gossimer veil of record companydom was dropped years ago. They are bastards, the lot of them. And it is ALL about money - money and product. It has nothing to do with music or the artist, and they make that quite clear. (Hence the mixed feelings about FotC getting signed. One hand: Happy for their success; Other hand: Concerned for their happiness.

I've known so many talented musicians get lost in the shuffle because the company didn't know how to market them, or the music was too new and they weren't willing to risk signing anything other than a new boy band or... Wambi, straight from a mould. It's sad. In the 60's and part of the 70's the music industry was more about trying something new and producing original sounds and artists, though not entirely, of course. Then in the 80's everything shifted.

Record producers get richer and the music gets poorer.


My feelings, exactly! Especially this part: "Hence the mixed feelings about FotC getting signed. One hand: Happy for their success; Other hand: Concerned for their happiness." But, the one bright light is that neither of them seems to be a "lightweight" in the brains department. They could not do the humor they do if they were two stupid louts -- we all know that. So, they have (hopefully) struck a deal that will be good for them, and make them happy for years to come. *fingers crossed, and good thoughts always for both of them*

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Gayle
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Postby Gayle » Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:56 pm

Kate wrote:*fingers crossed, and good thoughts always for both of them*

Here! Here!

I hope that the crack down on internet music doesn't affect your site, Sherry. I can't see that it would (hope, hope), but you never know. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you, too!
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Postby Sherry » Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:52 pm

O I am not worrying about this site ladies :bounce:

This was a general *sigh* at the crapiness of it all in general.

:cross: :stick: :fence:

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Postby Sherry » Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:04 am

The way forward

I've just read an article online about CD sales in Australia this holiday season. Read it HERE. Its the last part that interests me the most though.

*snip*

Apple's Steve Jobs recently levelled caustic criticism at the major labels, claiming that their greed in reaping the benefits of downloading had forced the company to raise the prices on its iTunes service.

Of course the labels scoffed at such a suggestion.

There is no doubt the way labels and artists deliver their music to the consumer has to undergo radical and immediate change for all parties to benefit.

The smart artists will develop their own online delivery systems via their own websites to reap the benefits of their creative endeavours - and communicate with their fans - directly.


*end snip*

There is a large chunk of my thinking now that would be very happy to see the guys go down the route of online music via their own site, rather than sign a deal with a label. Its not about the 'selling out' aspect. Far from that, just the fact the guys creative control would be totally their own. How they choose to market themselves, promote themselves or not, whatever they choose to do, they can share it direct and remain closer to their fan base. They are not musicians in the sense of things. They do comedy with music, or is that music with comedy. They are considered, as F o TC to be comedians :puzzled: Why not take the possibilities of the internet and go with it. Record labels need to move with the times and the more acts that embrace the changing times, the better. Here is one fan who would welcome and support such changes.

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Postby Gayle » Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:58 pm

:clap: Agreed, Sherry. I think that's a brilliant idea, and an ideal situation considering that they don't fit into any one category. Labels don't know what to do with anything original and different. I'd love to see them take up your suggestion!
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Kate
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Postby Kate » Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:18 pm

Sherry wrote:The way forward

I've just read an article online about CD sales in Australia this holiday season. Read it HERE. Its the last part that interests me the most though.

*snip*

Apple's Steve Jobs recently levelled caustic criticism at the major labels, claiming that their greed in reaping the benefits of downloading had forced the company to raise the prices on its iTunes service.

Of course the labels scoffed at such a suggestion.

There is no doubt the way labels and artists deliver their music to the consumer has to undergo radical and immediate change for all parties to benefit.

The smart artists will develop their own online delivery systems via their own websites to reap the benefits of their creative endeavours - and communicate with their fans - directly.


*end snip*

There is a large chunk of my thinking now that would be very happy to see the guys go down the route of online music via their own site, rather than sign a deal with a label. Its not about the 'selling out' aspect. Far from that, just the fact the guys creative control would be totally their own. How they choose to market themselves, promote themselves or not, whatever they choose to do, they can share it direct and remain closer to their fan base. They are not musicians in the sense of things. They do comedy with music, or is that music with comedy. They are considered, as F o TC to be comedians :puzzled: Why not take the possibilities of the internet and go with it. Record labels need to move with the times and the more acts that embrace the changing times, the better. Here is one fan who would welcome and support such changes.


David Bowie and Todd Rundgren saw this time coming a long while ago, and made the first efforts by major artists to go the internet route. The way the major record companies came down on them was shameful. Bowie (as far as I know) has never commented on it as extensively as Rundgren who has been very vocal in his opinion of how online availability of all music is a must for the artists to survive. He sees a day when the artists will sell music only through the internet (and their own sites), and you just know the record comapnies are fighting that day coming tooth and nail.

As for me, I am on the side of the artist. Corporatism and artistic endeavor mix like oil and water, and give us homgenized "creations" like Jessica Simpson and Britney Spears, and calls them "artists", while real artists are forced more and more outside the corporate umbrellas to make real art, or feel the pressure to make middle-of-the-road crap that some focus group says they'd like to hear on the radio. I am disgusted with this "corporate bottom-line is God" bullsh*t, frankly, and cannot wait for the day when every artist has the gumption to put up a website, and sell the music they make, unfiltered by that bottom-line. Can you imagine what the Rennaissance would have been like if every artist had a corporate entity to answer to? The Sistine Chapel would have been part advertizing billboard, fercripessake!

Corporate greed -- globally, not just in the U.S., but globally -- is what, in the end, homogenizes true art to pap, keeps poor people poor, and elevates all the wrong people to power, perpetuating that vicious cycle all over again. And, we wonder why there is war instead of peace... this cycle kills people's souls, stunts their minds, and stomps the human spirit into the ground. Where is our inspiration to seek peace? To preserve what is truly beautiful? To love instead of hate? Art used to do this for "the masses", but now it only serves to enrich corporations who can only keep the system going only as long as this status quo is perpetuated.

I'm with Sherry when I say, as much as I'd love to see the guys succeed and thereby be more "available", there is the much bigger part of me who hopes they don't go the record label route, and just create their own following their own way, and continue to create their art their way, and let us "support" that art and them directly.

Okay... off my anti-corporate/anti-globalization soapbox now. You are all so intelligent, that you know what I'm saying already. It is one of my pet peeves, is all. ---- I appreciate true genius wherever I find it, and the guys are definitely "genius", no matter how the pie is sliced. I'd just rather see them doing the slicing.

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Johnnyp
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Postby Johnnyp » Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:53 pm

Very very well put Kate. I was thinking about this the other day and how major labels are using technology to further their grip on what people hear. The first thing I think about is how many bands today sound so much alike. While record companies have always tried to follow trends I think they are using technology to actually keep the bands under their thumbs. In the past bands could follow trends but also had to come up with at least something unique to themselves in order for people to identify with them. You'd hear something and you'd have some point of reference to figure out who they were. The technology today allows record companies to just sell a sound. The bands can all sound alike because the info is right there on the display on your radio,on your computer,on your whatever. They don't have to be unique anymore in order for you to find out who they are. Since they all sound alike the record company has another band just like them to drop in that slot when the lead singer gets busted in Japan and the guitar player commits suicide.

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indigo_jones
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Postby indigo_jones » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:01 pm

Sort of on par with what Johnny was saying ...

The band Travis did a cover version of Britney Spears' song Hit Me Baby One More Time. Their version is fantastic and has so much depth and emotion, even though they obviously went into it with a bit of a sense of humor. Just proof that when in the hands of people with talent, even songs that are seemingly pieces of fluff can be quite good.

Yet what we hear on the radio is Britney croaking like a bullfrog. And now her skeezy husband is trying to release a rap album. *shudder*

I would love to see more bands taking control of their music and making it available online, cutting out the labels as much as possible. Unfortunately, I don't see them winning that battle any time soon because of the need for record companies to pay for the promotion of the bands. Of course, it's not as if the record labels ever promote the people who should be promoted.
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Johnnyp
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Postby Johnnyp » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:11 pm

I have often told people about the pros and cons of large corporate labels vs small independent label. I've had people I know get the big label deal only to have their new big record shelved because of various reason. Their manager quite, A&R guy quite, whoever at the record company who was behind them quites. The thing is the big record company has so much money coming in that they can afford to shelve these projects and move on. The smaller labels usually don't have the option of throwing money away. If they've taken the time and money to record something the only possibility they have to make their money back is to put the product out there.

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Postby jm513 » Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:33 am

Well, I can't really add any more to what has already been said - you guys summed it up rather well! I would love to see the guys promote themselves in their own way - I know they'd do a better job of it - especially with all of us to help where needed! I'll hang posters all day!

I actually do that for my absolute favorite band now! These guys are on a lable, but they don't really get promoted - at least not like the main stream bands today. They have come out with 5 or 6 records - won a grammy - are up for another grammy this year (best blues album, JP :D ) but they aren't big - I still see them at pretty small bars and run around town as part of their "marketing group" and hang posters when they come through.

"Dharma Pop now has a staff of 20 volunteers who participate in everything from management to web-hosting to graphic design, 400 "Punk Monks" (street teams) who help promote concerts by postering, contacting local media and record stores, selling merchandise at shows, etc. and 40 investors whose cash infusions make each new project possible."

(I don't know how to do that thing where you put this in its own window??)

How cool would doing this for J&B be????

......I think we need to make this an issue.......
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Johnnyp
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Postby Johnnyp » Sat Dec 31, 2005 5:50 am

Then there's always this oooops by Sony that makes consumers even a little more miffed

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9991596/

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Andria
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Postby Andria » Sat Dec 31, 2005 8:07 am

Johnnyp wrote:Then there's always this oooops by Sony that makes consumers even a little more miffed

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9991596/


:bang: Yeesh. Yet another excuse to be paranoid... :eh:
I'll take your body and cover it with honey, then stick some money to the honey, now you're covered in money, honey. -FotC


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